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pyometra in response to a report titled: WARNING!!!!!Very Nasty Guys
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After looking at the last pics, it is definitely pyometra. The rumen is on the right, intact, above the wheelbarrow. The only other structure that can expand that much and fill up with puss and the doe still be alive is the uterus. Pyometra ususally starts two weeks after estrus. With the first estrus cycle starting in early to mid November, the timing is perfect for the amount of puss seen. Lead or other metals lodged in the body do not cause an abscess. Organic materials would, like wood, or carbon shafts, but not metal. In fact, for lead poisoning to occur one must eat the lead, thus no more lead shot for ducks because they would eat the lead off the bottom of the lakes, rivers, impoundments, etc.
The pictures are hard to see which anatomical structure the puss is coming from. An abscess is a walled off mass of puss. If it is coming from the rumen, the larger of the four chambers, then some type of puncture (arrow, wood, gun shot, etc)is most likely. If it is coming from the two uterine horns, which it looks like from the second picture, this is an infection called pyometra. After estrus, if not bred, the uterine walls can get infected, filled with puss, swell and eventually rupture. You definitely saved her from a painful, prolonged death of sepsis and starvation.
Wcp I hear what you are saying and I know of a few people who can't read No Trespassing signs either. :) If the dogs run on another's property they have the right to confront. It is their property and they have the right to sit, walk, hunt on it without the invasion of anyone else including their dogs without permission. If there are dogs that are only catchable by their owners, then the owners need to be where they can catch them at the property lines. As with helping the member who had chemo, that is important, but in this situation it would have been better if another member whose dogs anyone can catch was helping that member.
Is it possible to break up the hunts into smaller blocks within your property area. By positioning the hunters in closer proximity, it would be easier to catch the dogs before they got off your property and less travel time from one end of the property to the other? I don't know your property layout, but if dog hunters want to continue dog hunting, they are going to have to find a way to contain their dogs.
Deer hunting with dogs started in England in the 1700's and has been a part of NC for a long time, however, so was whale hunting, and hunting passenger pigeons. Both have ended because we over harvested and didn't pay attention. Dog hunters need to really pay attention or it may be taken away as well. I don't have all the answers, nor do I want dog hunters to loose something they love, but ignoring the problem or blaming someone else will never help solve the problem.
I agree with Paul. I am a Christian and attending church every Sunday morning. Not only is this another day to be in the woods doing what we love, it is also a chance to increase the recruitment for others to start hunting. Most young people are playing fall sports and don't have a chance to go on Sat. I like the idea of inviting to church and then going to hunt. I wrote these thoughts to the NCWRC in 2006 after the survey and even mentioned allowing the hunt to start after 1pm, so not to disturb church services. I hope it passes for us and future generations.
Wcp your all or none theory of all dogs or no dogs is ridiculous. The comparison of deer hounds running amuck compared to other types of hunting with the use of dogs is quite entertaining. Most bear, coon, and squirrel dogs run the animal up a tree and stay there until the hunters arrive. Upland dogs and retrievers are under their master's control the entire hunt. Since deer don't run up trees, or bay, they just keep running and running until they ditch the dogs or get shot. Like I said before the problem is not hunting with dogs. The problem is uncontrolled dogs tresspassing on others properties for the sole purpose of chasing deer. Those that are reeping the benifit of someone else's dogs pushing deer toward them, that is great and you have an understanding which is a win-win situation. It is all the other hundreds of still hunters that have not worked out this arrangement including myself that makes me want to see some changes.
Thank you Bigbuks for your recommendations they are exactly what we need to do. The other thing I thought would be great is to get a table at the Dixie Deer Classic and get those petitions signed and to the right people.Ncsu_hunter it looks as you are a big time dog hunter. I respect that. It was funny when you said after running the dogs all day you see 20-30 deer in the fields AROUND your club. Is that land the dogs don't go on? What about a 5ft chicken wire fence around your club that would allow the deer to move on and off your club's propery feely, but would contain the dogs? You have heard of fox pens. We may have to create deer pens with beagles? The heart of the problem is not necessarly chasing deer with dogs, it is keeping the dogs under control. Would anyone appreciate a group of guys setting up on the perimeter of your property and running a bunch of 4 wheelers through it to jump deer without permission? Dogs are chatel, property, legally and the owner should be held accountable for their uncontrolled actions. This is great that we can share our opinions on so many topics with other sportsman. Times are changing and regulations and laws will need to change with them for the betterment of everyone.
Heavy Chevy you make a couple interesting points. Who owns the deer? We know to harvest big deer you have to 'grow' big deer. Grow-to provide basic needs and let them live long enough to mature. If I buy/lease land to plant a garden, fertilize, weed, and then let it grow, is it okay for anyone to take the veggies who had not an investment or effort to make the garden a success? Of course not. Deer have home ranges and even smaller bedding areas. If I invest time and money and give them all they need and let them grow on my property, I don't own them, but I should have the right to hunt them without others hunting them by stand or running dogs through there. So in essence, I don't own, but control the harvesting of the deer on that property. Who out there would allow a bunch of guys do a man drive through your property? That is the same as a dog drive.
'Selling an animal for profit...' is another point you mentioned. If selling an animal is a problem then you might as well close all the zoos in the country because they are the same principle. You pay to see an animal that you might not get a chance to see anywhere else. We can't say it is a free country in one hand, then say we should take away a person's right to get paid to let someone shoot an animal on their property. Every leasee pays to kill an animal on someone elses land.
I agree, however, it is a useful tool and we need to work on decreasing the herd. It would be interesting to compare how many deer are killed by dog hunters, actually harvested while a dog is chasing them, versus still hunting down east. On gamelands down east, it seems like there was more driving than killing. I could be mistaken though. Maybe the NCWRC could start a reporting system for deer killed by doggers vs. still hunters to see if there is a big difference between the two. Then seasons could be adjusted to accommodate both.
I agree with both Chasin Trophies and Woodish163. I lived and hunted in Craven co. for 5 years and had more than one hunt ruined by dogs chasing off deer. I see how the thrill of dogs running toward you would be exciting if you were sitting in the back of your pickup truck too lazy to scout, prepare and set up an ambush hunt like stand hunting. I just couldn't understand the driving around, talking on the CB, trying to cut off the dogs to maybe get a shot, then spending 2-4 hrs trying to gather up the dogs. I know many thickets down east that are great for sitting on the edges to catch deer heading out to feed in the pm. With ground blinds, no one needs a tree to set up anymore. I agree with setting property size limits and limiting the season to the end of the season for 2 weeks or so. Shooting dogs is not the answer nor shooting each other, but with 2 game wardens per county, there is not enough enforcement to go around. Some kind of compromise needs to be established.
Labpups4sale, you are right about the big buck states with very short gun seasons, but they have longer bow and muzzleloader seasons. If you look at the dates those big deer are killed is in Nov. during rut. The difference with them is the lack of deer numbers and abundance of fertile soils. We are the opposite in NC, too many deer and poor soils in comparison. It is sad about your neighbors shooting small bucks. Have you talked to them face to face about a management plan? If they only shoot bucks, they should be all for a plan to get a trophy buck. Your statement about the supporters for the new season are by gun hunters only is incorrect. I and many of my bowhunting friends are for more time to thin out the herd. We would all shoot more does if we had a longer season to hunt after the rut. I like the shoot a doe to earn a buck, but the cost and tracking of such a program is very difficult. Would you want to pay $50.00 a year for extra cost of the program even if you have a lifetime license? What would all lifetime licensed hunters be willing to pay to do this program each year? What would yearly license buyers be willing to pay for their license and tags each year to pay for this program? $50.00 to $100.00 extra a year? How many hunters would quite hunting if the license went up $50.00 a year for both lifetime holders and yearly buyers just to start a program to shoot a doe before a buck. I love the idea of closing the buck season down, but we can't even track what is really killed now with the call in reporting system. Do you really believe there would not be jerks (not real sportsman) who would shoot bucks and no report them? What about the guy who tresspassed and shot the buck you let walk? We need more enforcement, a better checking system, and less does. I think the longer season is worth a try, even if the bow and muzzy seasons stay the same and end gun Jan 1 in districts 1-8 and I like 1 buck limit across the state. We need to do something with the deer population soon. I don't want to loose a loved one by a car-deer collision. I don't want CWD or Hemorrhagic Fever to wipe out half the population in the state. I don't like buying my son a bow or rifle for Christmas and not being able to hunt until the next year. I don't like deer hunting with dogs. It is barbaric and unnecessary in this day and time. We need to get a plan, stick together and see the greater good for the state and not our individual hunting properties.
I have read the opinions of the NCBA and Ramon Bell's thoughts on the subject. Guys I don't know what all the fuss is about. We that hunt big bucks know it takes age, nutrition, and genetics to harvest mature, trophy bucks. The proposal does not say we have to forget everything we know about growing big buck and shoot every yearling buck you see when the early gun season opens. Most of us are managing our hunting lands to grow big bucks already no matter what weapon season it is. I am all for the new proposal for a couple reasons. One, I am a bow hunter 90% of the time, in fact the only time i use a gun is to take a young person out to shoot a doe. With the new season, I can get rid of some does early before the rut with young people and introduce them to hunting before the deer are spooked and the weather is too cold for the young people who do not have these well insulated hunting clothes we have. Then in Nov. I am with the bow hunting big bucks. Then after the rut I will have more weekends to take other young people before the season ends. This year I had 3 saturdays taken for Christmas parties which meant no afternoon hunts. Secondly, the proposal is about choices and opportunity. We have more deer, bears, and turkeys than ever before. This proposal allows us to choose the weapon we want to hunt with and gives us more time to connect with that big buck we have pics of on the trail camera. It does not take away your bow. I use mine during muzzleloader and gun season already. It does not take away your muzzleloader season, in fact it may give you 2 weeks if you are into muzzleloaders. With the inline muzzys and scopes,then are no different than a rifle anyway. This proposal is good for all hunters and allows you to use whatever you enjoy. The rules and Regs are not stopping baby buck killing now. Poachers and Trespassers are still out. Lying hunters who shoot bucks and report does will always be out there too. It comes down to the individual and their ethics. I hate this 'the other hunter' theme of shooting small bucks. Take time to get to know the hunters around your property and get a game plan for the type and age class of bucks you all want to harvest. Maybe the other hunters are thinking you are going to shoot the small bucks so they don't let them walk.
And lastly, This nonsense about the rut ruined and small bucks left to breed is a hilarious notion. The eastern section has had this season in for years and allowed to kill 4 bucks and every year big bucks are killed. Are spikes doing the breeding down there? No. I say Vote yes for the change and enjoy the great outdoors God has given us! We are so worried about everybody else that we forget what a blessing it is to have all the wildlife we do.
I am an avid hunter and fisher. Love to take young men and women hunting and sharing my knowledge with them.