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  • ANGRY... @myself...

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    Need some help guys... So I take all my shots from a seated position, about 12-15' high. Shots range from 20-25 yards. All of my arrows keep sailing high. Like right over they back. On opening day I took my first shot at a doe and zip right over her back. Next doe a lil later I compensated for it by aiming like a FOOT below her with my 20yard pin even though she was at 23 yards. Perfect placement, didn't even make it 30 yards. This morning, nice 6 pointer and compensated for it again like I did the last time, and the arrow sailed again a lil high, struck the buck at top of back, dead center to where I was aiming. Was clean pass through. Arrow soaked in blood, pretty good blood trail for 100yards... Then it just disappears... Have looked at looked for hours... Very angry at myself for not recovering... I am trying to stay positive that the arrow went through all meat, and he may survive. I hate to think I wounded an animal I can not harvest... My question is why is my 20 yard pin when shooting targets perfect, but when elevated its high?
    Reply
    Shots
    It happens Brother!!! Are you practicing from a seated position? The difference in point-of-aim between a deer right below you and a deer 20 yards away will have dramatic changes because arrow flight flattens big-time at steeper, downward angles. At very sharp angles, arrows hit only slightly above level-ground point-of-aim. Holding 1, 2, or perhaps 3 inches below normal usually does the trick inside 20 yards. The farther the distance and the steeper the shooting angle, the lower you need to aim. Deer look smaller when viewed from above, which causes archers to overestimate distance. The result is high hits. And deer often jump the bowstring when shot at from a tree, partly because shots are close, and partly because bow noise travels especially well through air with no close terrain or ground-level-foliage to absorb game-spooking racket. String-jumping deer always crouch before they bolt, which causes high hits or even higher misses. This happens so fast that a bowhunter seldom sees the deer drop its body before the arrow arrives. Treestand trajectory often gets blamed, when deer movement is part of the problem also. You mention you like sitting shots..I do also but keep in mind that If you do not bend at the waist on downward shots, you won’t retain the same upper-body geometry that you’ve practiced so often at ground level but Standing or sitting bolt-upright, instead of bending toward your target, will cause high hits. Like I said, I also prefer to shoot from a sitting position whenever my stand setup allows and I also had to learn to lean toward the target and bend at the waist as I shot. You should also decide early on whether the lower bow limb should go between your knees on sitting shots or outside both knees and place rocks or limbs at premeasured areas and be patient until you get the shot at 1 of them that you want...After my goof last year I purchased a Nikon 550 with ARC and I often test my guesses while on stand and depending on height.. some yardages will fool ya...For example...Some of Dons stands that I hunt are high and 20 yards looks like spitting distance from up their and 40 looks like a chip shot...great investment...Try this...Walk off what your practice shots are at home at the base of your tree stand and then climb up and you will be shocked at how much closer 20 yards looks...I shot over several deer when I first started Bow-Hunting doing exactly what you described...Keep in mind that shooting up steep hills you will need to aim higher instead of lower because of that trajectory thing lol...anyway Hope I didn't confuse ya and Good Luck.
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    Reply
    Shot Placement
    I have always shot a pendulum sight for that reason alone but, all the same I did the same thing opening day 3 times while sitting. It had to do with bending at the waist as I was shooting between my legs. I probably would have fared better if I but both knees together and shot to the side. If you're 20 feet up and the deer is at 20 yards you have to shoot them like they are at 15 yards (shoot at the bottom of their chest). If they are straight under you, and I know this sounds crazy but it works, use your 30 yard pin when using fixed pins. For me.....I have to stand up, unless I'm on the ground in a ground blind. Then I can shoot sitting down. The TRUEGLO TG701 is the sight I use. They are hard to come by but, they a single pin, adjustable sight. I can get 20 yards to 100 yard marks on it for the ground which will vary with bow speed. The pendulum I set at 20 yards and it's good from 0 to 42 yards, 42 and further I jump it to my 40 yard mark and it's good out to 70 yards. After that you are almost shooting flat even though you may be 20 feet up a tree, so I just shoot it for the yardage as if I was on the ground. Watch my video if you haven't and click frame for frame at the time of the shot. It was a hair over their back each time while sitting which is about 6 inches higher than I was aiming.
    Hope this helps from GT too, If all else fails stand up. I have never had too much problem standing and not get busted, which I always have to do when in my climber. When I'm in a lock-on or ladder stand I get lazy.
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    Thanks Guys
    Ya I looked again for a while last night... Still no sign... Guess I am going to have to just move on, and try to learn from it. I couldnt shake the 'sick to my stomach' feeling for hours. Still not completely over it. On to my next questions. I took my first deer to be processed... $85.00 + a 45min - 1 way trip to the location from home... Starting to really consider doing this myself. I think with your guys help with what equipment, and technique, thoughts, experiences. I might be able to accomplish. What would be the 'MUST HAVES' to process, and what is your normal process?
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    Processing
    This is one of the most rewarding things. It really doesn't cost that much for the equipment. It just depends on what you want to make. I myself have probably tried more than the average person would want to try, hey but it's all good.

    Some people/butchers will hang the meat in a cooler but not everyone has that access. I usually quarter up my deer and put it in a cooler covered in ice for about 5 to 7 days, periodically draining off the bloody water. I personally like this method better because it seems to tenderize the meat and wash it of excess blood.

    Cutting it up to process: all I use is a filet knife. I cut out the fat (if any) and all the silver meat skin, cartridge, etc. That's basically it for getting it ready to process.

    I started making jerky which all you need for that is a dehydrator which you can buy at Wal-Mart for about 35 - 40 dollars, and a good recipe (which I have). Slice your meat into 1/4 thick 2 inch wide strips, marinade for 24 hours and throw it on the dehydrator. The only problem with Jerky is it gets gone faster than you can make it.

    That's why I started making burger. Buger you process the meat the same way however you will need a grinder. I bought one at Gander Mountain for around $100.00. Then you will need a 'Seal-a-Meal' or 'Food-Saver' again about a 100 bucks for a good one. Then I cut the meat into 1 inch by 1 inch strips and drop them into the grinder on course grind. I usually buy a 'Boston Butt' pork roast and grind it up and mix it with the venison. About a 70% Venison to 30% pork mix. You can add seasoning, then just bag it up for the freezer.
    Burger is less work than Jerky.

    If you want to make Brats or sausage you will need a sausage stuffer or press. (They say your grinder will stuff sausage but trust me it won't), sausage press in a #5 pound size will do all you need and is around $90.00 >>>>Note Sausage Press in picture
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    butcher
    I use to process my own until I found the guy I go to now. He's in Henderson, about a 45 minute ride for me so I try to take him a couple at a time. I've sent about a dozen people to him and everyone has been pleased with his work.
    He has a base price of $40 to process your deer and you get the normal cuts - burger, stew, steaks, cubed steak. Add $2 for breakfast sausage, add $10 for jerky w/ mix ready for your dehydrator, and $30 for summer sausage (smoked and ready to eat). He also does bologna if you want it - he basically will do anything that you can do with beef or pork. The summer sausage is awesome. He's great and for that price I'd rather let him do it so I can have more time to hunt. lol
    Also he has a handicap child so I hope that all of us that go to him are helping him out a little while he's helping us out.
    If anyone wants his contact info let me know - he's in Henderson which is probably too far for some of you.
    Reply
    Arrows flight
    Sorry to jump off the meat wagon, but let me go back to the original problem. I don't mean to sound harsh but going into the woods knowing that you are going to guess at aiming a foot below the deer which would be 16-20 inches below the point of impact is a contributing factor in this puzzle.
    What the others say about shooting from the stand changing the appearance of the yardage is correct. If you draw a square box, the length of the bottom is shorter than the diagonal distance. A rangefinder may tell you your target is further than it is. However, if you are shooting a modern bow with the correct arrows, the effect on trajectory at a reasonable range and relatively low stand elevation is negligible.
    I have a standard range finder and at most 20-30 yard distances and my stand elevation, my change the precieved distance vs actual distance may be only 2-3 yards. I often judge this by ranging the base of a tree and then ranging the tree at eye level to where I'm sitting. The higher you go the more severe the effect.
    Likely it's an issue with bending at the waist and/or excitement if you can hit well during practice.
    Reply
    Processor
    Sorry... Back on the meat wagon. Viper I process the same way as you. I know who's meat is the freezer. And it is key to remove all fat and silver from the meat. However, I will add that I have no problem getting my grinder to stuff. ( Cheapo from Cabela's) I just have to recruit my wife to feed the preground meat down the feed tube. I usaully can't keep up with her.Lol.. I do Brawts and/or country sausage mix with a boston butt as well, and leave the rest in 1 inch cubes for stew or my favorite which is marinate the cubes and wrap in bacon then skewered with onions, pepper, and grill, then brush on your favorite bbq sauce. Justintime,
    If I lived closer to your processor I would give him a try. When I don't have the time to do it myself. I would like to try the summer sausage. He sounds like a winner.
    Reply
    Got it.
    Ya I am starting to believe/understand the bending at the waist thing. I tried to duplicate the problem sitting down out in the yard, but arrows fly straight, I think the problem occurs when aiming 'down' hence the bend in waist I suppose. Just to share here were the couple photos I took of the deer I harvested opening day.
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    Meat Wagon!
    Going to pick up a foodsaver tonight after work. I think I will try to the cooler method, I like that. Do you quarter it then put it in? or whole? Gutted & Skinned? Whats the process? Now back to the grinder, here are a few that I have looked at:

    1: http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Electric-Meat-Grinders-by-LEM-Products/product/40794/

    2: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Prago-Heavy-Duty-Electric-Meat-Grinder/14321012

    3: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200451267_200451267

    Next, I have heard about mixing in beef fat at about a 20% ratio. So most of you arent doing this but rather the pork butt? At what ratio?

    Havnt seen these boys since this picture as for some reason my camera stopped storing pics on the card, says it is taking pictures but nothing ends up on card...
    Reply
    MMMMM Man That looks AWESOME!!!!!!
    I have no problem with cleaning my own and actually have a special swivel Pole Hanger that I made and installed in back yard for my friends and myself and like Viper, I quarter the deer up and place in Ice..2 Hams 2 Front shoulders and The back straps...I hate to leave the inner loins but if is real Hot, I just skin and quarter without even gutting. I have a Food Saver Plus and that is the way to go but 2 years ago, A ex-coworker started doing my deer...Anyway I choose plus it's sealed in Food Saver Bags also and usually just the right amount of Burger for most meals (About 1.5 to 2lbs per Bag) for about $50 and it's a 8 Minute Ride from me so with the Cost of the FS Bags and I'm usually pressed for time, I don't even have to Gut it...Just back up and Tag it with my name and Harvest Report Card number and how I want it...I trust these Guys and so far have no complaints but I do like taking Pride in doing my own...I have took back-straps from the deer to the sink to the grill while I finished the rest of the deer lol...I have let deer walk because of day-light savings time and having to be at work early the next day and just didn't feel like messing with 1 but now, If I'm in need of Deer Meat and have the urge to shoot 1...It's a short ride and $50 lol.. Like the other Guys said..It's not all that hard but you do have to go with the grain and around the junk meat...As far as bending at the waist...It's really something you should practice because soomer or later, It will be your only option if you choose to shoot and I would say to also wear your hunting clothes when doing so because I have had my string hit my Jacket Twice and I didn't recover either deer...It sucks but that's part of this Game called Bow-Hunting...Stick with it and I'm sure you will re-cover your Antlers even though you lost the meat but then again...Deer are tough critters!!! Good Luck
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    Grinder
    I like your choice #2 It is comparable to the one I have used for the last 4 years. The only thing I wish I had, that really isn't that big a deal, is an all stainless guts. Cutter, auger, meat tray, etc. I have not seen one, including your choice #1 that is truly all stainless. I like that nothing is in front of the output auger like #2 because I usually put a large stainless bowl in my sink with the grinder hanging over the sink which allows me to grind more meat without having to empty the bowl.

    Speaking of 'Stainless', if you don't have them buy a large stainless bowl. I also use a large stainless pot to mix in. They make meat mixers but you can kneed it with your hands or as do when I processes multiple deer at a time, I use a mortar mixing blade (used only for my meat....lol) and a cordless drill.

    Butchering the deer: I hang them up on the anvil, skin them down to their neck, cut back-straps out first. Then cut shoulders off if you use them (lost of cartridge and little meat IMO), then I part the hind quarters from the backbone at the base where they meat. I cut around the pelvic bone from the back side, then cut around the pelvic on the inside, then cut one ham loose from the anvil, (be careful not to let the other ham jump off the anvil). Find the hip joint on the inside and stick your knife into the joint and the ball and it cuts apart easier than you would think. Do the same to the other ham. NOTE: I like to keep the meat in large pieces so there's not as much meat in contact with the ice which will reduce (ice-burn) which only makes the meat turn brown.

    GT about fell out the first time he saw me clean a deer. His comment was dang never seen one cleaned that fast before!I have a RAMBO method you can do in the woods but that's advanced training....lol! Shoot me an e-mail if you have further questions. I'm not sure if my e-mail on the site works so use my direct e-mail: royalhuggins@earthlink.net
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    Loins
    I get the inner loins out without gutting them by poking a hole in the flank near the hips and reaching in and sliding my fingers between the loin and spine. It' separates fairly easily just with one hand.
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    Inner loin
    Going to need some kind of picture to understand that one. On the other hand I've had a good couple days. Got a food saver with 9 rolls and about 50 bags and a bowl thing for $20.00 from a neighbor. Also got a 6' stainless prep table for $75.00. Really need the grinder now ;)
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    meat
    Nice meat hook!! I like #2 or #3. For me pork is cheaper. As far as pork ratio. That will become a personal preference. I do an 80/20 or close to it. When I look for a boston butt I try to pick one with a lot of fat. At 80/20 you are not going to get a lot of fat in it to begin with but it does help with keeping burger or sausage from drying out. So get as much fat off the pork skin as possible. Also, a key point which Viper pointed out is mixing the pork and/or seasoning in really good. I will caution. Processing your own deer is a lot of work. But well worth it. I recently picked up a slicer at a yard sale which speeds up the jerky process. Make perfect thin slices. Good Luck!
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    Slow morning
    Saw 2 does with 4 fawns and a small spike. Nothing since then... Which one of these 2 would you get?

    http://www.target.com/p/elite-platinum-stainless-steel-meat-grinder/-/A-10771142#prodSlot=large_1_1&term=Meat+grinder

    http://www.target.com/p/electric-meat-grinder-4500/-/A-665942#prodSlot=large_1_2&term=Meat+grinder
    Reply
    #2
    I couldn't get the first link to come up but the second link is like the one I have. 4 years and still going. I figure at that price if it breaks, it won't break me to replace it. LOL!

    Going out to sit on a tree and hope it rains. When it stops raining magic might happen. I need one more to go with the one from last night!
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    Lol
    Ya I sat a few hours last night nothing, and this morning jut 1 huge fawn, still a lil spotty.
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    buck
    Just read your report.I missed a few while at my Dads.
    I have read posts on here a lot about people who have shot and looked for hours and never recovered their deer.I felt bad for them but never new how bad it would feel if it actually happen to me until it actually happened. Its amazing how fast a wounded or dying deer can disappear. My Dad told me a doe will give up easier than a buck.He said a buck will fight up until their last breath,its just their nature. I'm sorry you didn't recover your deer,I know it stays on your mind wondering what you could have done different.Good luck the rest of the season.
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    Processor
    Justintime.. Do you have a contact for hte processor that you use? A friend of mine is interested in using him. He lives about 30 min from Henderson. Shoot me an email woodto916@gmail.com if you don't mind.
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    Pics
    As requested...
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    Loins
    Other side
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    Taxidermist
    Slick Trick Taxidermist.....I almost missed this but wondered how you did it. That must be the point when your cutting the backstrap out and sometimes you see the gut under the surface if you cut a little to deep? Slick man!
    Reply